[BikeLongmont] 25 mph speed limit proposal

[Nenad]

Doug,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful note. I am copying the list on
this answer, since your original posting ran afoul of our spam filters -
sadly, we only dare let list members post, or else we get deluged!

Regards, Nenad

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 11:12, Doug Brown wrote:
> Hello:
>      Well as a city councilman most often I receive three types of
> complaints .  Two of those have to do with code enforcement.  The major
> complaint I get, is speed and volume of traffic on collector streets.  The
> neighborhoods are now very densely designed with houses being within 25 feet
> of the street.  The collectors may move traffic across town through
> residential neighborhoods.   The lack of livable standards has created
> streets that are very unpleasant to live on.  The street noise prevents
> normal conversation, in the home, when the windows are open and cars and
> trucks go by.  Since many of these collectors actually function as arterials
> the noise can be constant during the day.  People with small children fear
> their children will dart into traffic, 20 to 25ft. is too close for very
> young kids.  Right now people on some streets tell me they can't back onto
> the streets safely during high peak traffic times.  The developers dont'
> tell buyer what kind of traffic these new streets are going to carry.   I
> have a friend that was hit by a car doing 80MPH on Lashly street, that was
> about 15 years ago and she still is in pain.  Why design streets where
> people can travel through neighborhoods at very high rates of speeds?
>      The collectors need to be designed so that they don't degrade the
> neighborhoods.
>       It is now taking up to 4 or 5 years per street to do traffic
> mitigation  and can cost the city over $150,000.00 per street, and we have
> dozens of problems; therefore, why not have a collector designed to a
> livable standard? Why build streets that will require millions of dollars in
> traffic mitigation?  It doesn't make sense.
>      Right now streets are being designed that allows people to travel above
> 50MPH.  While most cars travel around 35 to 40 MPHs a few each day will
> travel these streets at over 50MPH and one or two a day are traveling at
> very height rates of speed. The guy that killed hisself on Alpine by doing
> 90MPH was an exceptiong, but not that much of an exception.
>      The  25mph was purposed by a councilman the last hour he was on
> council.  The staff never would volunteer why we did not set up livable
> standard for collectors, so now we are going to try to fix everything. When
> the city ignores a long festering set of problems, and then tries to fix
> them at once, it's not a very pretty picture, but it is better than ignoring
> the problems
>      As far as how the 25mph thing is going to be done the staff has told
> you more than they have told the council.
> We do need to design effecient and livable streets.  The staff has done a
> good job of moving traffic and ignored the livable aspects of collector
> street design.
>      Be at the traffics design meeting tomorrow (Sat. 2-11 at 9:00AM) at the
> senior center, it will last to about 4 pm.
>      I won't say much more, but I do want you to know that I commuted by
> bicycle for about 26 years, and I think bike commuting has improved and
> continues to improve because of the staffs attitude and your hard work.
> Keep it up.
> 
> Doug Brown
> City Councilmember
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nenad" <nenad at bicyclelongmont.org>
> To: "Richard Masoner" <rmasoner at gmail.com>
> Cc: <bike at bicyclelongmont.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 8:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [BikeLongmont] 25 mph speed limit proposal
> 
> 
> > Hmmmmm......
> >
> > I am wondering what is causing the city to consider lowering the speed
> > limits. Do the accident statistics indicate these streets have traffic
> > moving too fast? If we have problems with people getting hurt, then
> > obviously something has to be done. Otherwise, the case for making a
> > change is kind of weak.
> >
> > I don't think it is a good idea to have simple rigid criteria, such as
> > taking into account just the character of the buildings.
> >
> > I also think it is not a good idea to make rules that will not be
> > followed - the speed limits are often observed only in breach. A speed
> > limit that is perceived by drivers to be out of sync with the nature of
> > the street (be it never so conformant to rules) will lead to widespread
> > speeding.
> >
> > It could be argued that such a speed limit actually decreases safety - a
> > few drivers obey, everyone else passes, more danger than if the traffic
> > moves at more uniform speed.
> >
> > Regards, Nenad
> >
> > On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 16:28, Richard Masoner wrote:
> > > I'm not certain if this is germaine to bicycling or not, but most of
> > > you probably know about city council's desire to look into reducing
> > > speed limits on residential streets to 25 mph.
> > >
> > > City staff has proposed defining a "residential" street to be a
> > > non-arterial streets (i.e. local and collector streets) where
> > > buildings adjacent to the street for at least 100 yards are mainly
> > > residential dwellings.
> > >
> > > Hence, 21st Avenue -- a 4 lane, divided road -- would have a 25 mph
> > > speed limit under the proposed definition. Other affected streets
> > > include Alpine, Deerwood, Mountain View, Lashley, Collyer, Francis,
> > > Gay, Clover Basin (west of Airport), and short portions of Pratt Pky,
> > > Quail Road, Missouri, and Sunset.
> > >
> > > I'm curious about how the group feels about this: Yay? Nay? Yay, but
> > > with changes?
> > >
> > > Richard Masoner
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Bike at bicyclelongmont.org
> > > http://www.bicyclelongmont.org/mailman/listinfo/bike
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