[BikeLongmont] RE: Bike Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15: Traffic Circles Update

Mon Feb 21 12:58:03 MST 2005

An update on the Mountain View traffic circles as of 02/21/2005 12:00.  I
stopped and talked to the construction crew working on the traffic circle at
Vassar CT today.  There are two traffic circles installed so far:  Princeton
Circle and Vassar CT.  I asked if the current configuration (especially the
white barriers just before the traffic circle that cause the bikers to merge
into the auto traffic) was temporary (during the construction) or permanent.
I was told the entire job is temporary for six months while they determine
if the traffic circles are effective at reducing automobile speeds.  Thus,
depending on your point of view, the hazard to bikers is temporarily
permanent or permanently temporary). I pointed out the obvious hazard to
bikers who choose to not go up on the sidewalk to avoid a possible close
encounter of the car kind, and the crew said that yield signs were there to
caution motorists.  I told them I thought that was inadequate and that the
current design creates an unnecessary hazard for bikers.  One crew member
said he understood my concerns and hoped something better could be worked
out.  I do too.

This issue should be of concern to all Longmont bikers because if the
Mountain View traffic circles get approved, you will be seeing them around
town with the good chance of the increased hazard to bikers as they merge
with automobiles to get through the circle.  Check out the two installed
traffic circles and let us know your views.

Victor Morin
Longmont CO

-----Original Message-----
From: bike-bounces at bicyclelongmont.org
[mailto:bike-bounces at bicyclelongmont.org]On Behalf Of
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Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 12:00
To: bike at bicyclelongmont.org
Subject: Bike Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15

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Today's Topics:

   1. traffic circles (Craig D. Smith)
   2. Re: traffic circles (Richard Masoner)
   3. Re: MountainView Traffic circles (Mike Dodge)
   4. Re: MountainView Traffic circles (Richard Masoner)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:55:30 -0700
From: "Craig D. Smith" <craig at powersmith.net>
Subject: [BikeLongmont] traffic circles
To: <bike at bicyclelongmont.org>
Message-ID: <001801c51786$24ef5b90$1802a8c0 at office>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Lauren's advice is right on.  I assumed in my posting that cyclists would

know to "take the lane" in the absence of a dedicated bike lane.  I noticed

no signage on the MountainView circles relative to bikes, but they do not

look to be completed as yet.  I agree that a "yield lane to cyclists" or

something similar would certainly start to educate Longmont drivers as to

the rights of cyclists.  "Taking the lane" in Longmont is currently more

likely to lead to a confrontation than doing the same thing when cycling in

Boulder.

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:36:50 -0700
From: Richard Masoner <rmasoner at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BikeLongmont] traffic circles
To: bike at bicyclelongmont.org
Message-ID: <32bbc2aa050220123677892886 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:55:30 -0700, Craig D. Smith <craig at powersmith.net>
wrote:
>  "Taking the lane" in Longmont is currently more
> likely to lead to a confrontation than doing the same thing when cycling
in
> Boulder.

I get the opposite impression personally. I take the lane on Ken Pratt
all the time, and I've done it on Hover and Nelson. I tried it on 28th
in Boulder and and got several calls of "get off the road" etc.

RFM

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:48:14 -0700
From: "Mike Dodge" <mikewdodge at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BikeLongmont] MountainView Traffic circles
To: bike at bicyclelongmont.org
Message-ID: <BAY1-F347405A8846682FD153352DF600 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I rode down Mountain View from Hover today was was shocked at how unsafe the
traffic circle is.  There are no warning signs.  It seems that at a minimum
the city should remove the bike lane designation as the barriers the city
has errected are hazardous to bikes.  By the time I saw that the bike lane
was blocked, there was very little time for me to check for traffic and
merge.  At the bottom of the hill, I turned around and rode up.  Because I
climb slow, there was more time to move over, but my slow speed and the
faster speed of the cars made this awkward.

The cars that I noticed, would brake, swerve through the circle and
accelerate back to what ever speed they were going.  I don't think that the
circles effectively slowed anyone down (other than at the circle).  If the
city wants people to go slower, they should lower the speed limit.  The only
thing that the traffic circle does is use up brake linings and increase the
chance of an accident.

The circle must be real scary when it is dark.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:00:26 -0700
From: Richard Masoner <rmasoner at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BikeLongmont] MountainView Traffic circles
To: bike at bicyclelongmont.org
Message-ID: <32bbc2aa050220160042753e19 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Thanks for the reports from those who've gone on the Mtn View circles.

Lowering the speed limit does almost nothing to slow traffic down.
Motorists travel at the speed a road is designed for, regardless of
posted signs.

City staff said they would remove the bike lanes. I had hoped the lane
removal would have occurred concurrent with circle installation.
Unfortunately, city offices are closed on Presidents Day so the
*earliest* action will be Tuesday.

I like the idea of signs indicating the bicyclists merge into the
center of the lane before entering the circles. According to safety
studies I've seen of UK roundabouts (much faster and much more traffic
than on the small traffic circles being installed here), 10% of
car-bicycle collisions in roundabouts are hit-from-behind. The much
greater risk is vehicles entering or exiting the circle across the
path of a bicyclist -- these are about 50% of roundabout accidents.

My preliminary thoughts on traffic circles in Longmont are at:

  http://www.masoner.net/bike/circles.php

I'll update that page based on the comments that Victor and Mike have
made later this week.

Richard Masoner
--

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:48:14 -0700, Mike Dodge <mikewdodge at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>   The only
> thing that the traffic circle does is use up brake linings and increase
the
> chance of an accident.

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